Having broken through as an actress with roles including the flesh-peeling part of Marcy in Eli Roth’s Cabin Fever remake and a stint of supervillainy as Scorcher on Supergirl, Nadine Crocker has seamlessly moved into filmmaking, with her second feature Desperation Road releasing in select theaters and on-demand tomorrow, Oct. 6.
The adaptation of Michael Farris Smith’s Southern-fried thriller novel stars Garrett Hedlund as Russell Gaines, recently released from prison and trying to carve out a new life in a hometown that never forgets. He ends up crossing paths with Willa Fitzgerald’s Maben and her young daughter Annallee who find themselves in a similar boat under very different circumstances, with Mel Gibson and Ryan Hurst among those lending support as Russell’s father Mitchell and hot-headed local Larry respectively.
After making her feature-length directorial debut with the acclaimed and award-winning Continue – a deeply personal project inspired by suicide survivor and mental health advocate Crocker’s own life – the filmmaker continues expanding her cinematic horizons and telling intensely personal tales with Desperation Road.
Ahead of its impending release, We Got This Covered had the chance to speak to Crocker about the film. During our deep dive, we cover taking on a new creative process through adapting an existing novel, collaborating with the cast to bring out the best of their characters, picking two-time Academy Award winner Gibson’s directorial brain, the importance of shining a light on mental health through storytelling, her dreams of deconstructing the Joker and much more, which you can check out below.
It’s been a fairly quick turnaround all considered, with Desperation Road first announced less than a year ago and now here we are with the movie releasing imminently, but does it feel that way to you? Or have you been itching to get this one out into the world for audiences to finally see it?
Nadine Crocker: That’s actually a great question. It feels like I started yesterday, but it also feels like I’ve been waiting to show it forever. It’s like the weirdest feeling, you know, I had that moment with my husband, we were like, “You realize you were just now in Kentucky filming at this time last year?”, and I’m like, “Oh my God, that is a crazy turnaround.” On my first film, it took – my second film was really my first film out – but it took a while to complete just the whole process. So to see this film just have so much momentum and complete so quickly, and then come out so quickly, it was definitely surprising, but exciting.
Michael Farris Smith adapted his own novel for the screenplay, and much like yourself he’s one of the producers on the film, so it’s fair to say he’s been pretty involved. Having written, directed, and starred in your first feature, was that new kind of collaborative experience something you found easy to get to grips with despite how different this movie was from your first, at least in terms of its origins?
Nadine Crocker: Yeah, it was definitely a learning experience, and one that I think that is really important for me as a filmmaker, I do. I write a lot of my own stories, and a lot of the next ones that I’m doing I have written, and, yeah, it was nerve-wracking to know how the collaborative process would go upon meeting Michael.
I read the script numerous times, I read the book, I did all of these things before we met, before I took the meeting, and then it was like, “I have to know how our relationship is going to be, and how this how this collaborative process will work.” And especially with him being so involved, and knowing that he wants to stay on to produce it, and all of those things.
But from the moment we sat down, he was so supportive, and collaborative, and kind. And he really took… I came into it with a lot of thoughts. I like to call them thoughts, they’re not notes, they’re thoughts! It’s like, “This is what’s important to me, how open are you to this,” and he just took everything. And he was really open to collaborating and letting me work on the script and work really closely with him to make sure everything that was important to me and him were both honored.
And so it was a really beautiful experience. I mean, if it hadn’t had been, I don’t want to say love at first sight, but it’s like from the second we sat down, it was just such a beautiful relationship. And I was like, “Oh, this is a relationship and a collaboration I want to take all the way,” and I was basically all-in from that moment forward. And then we basically started working in the shadows to make this film possible.
Garrett and Willa and are fantastic in the movie, and it wouldn’t be a stretch to call it career-best work from both of them. They aren’t simple performances to give or easy characters to play, so what was finding the right people to play those roles and then having them craft that dynamic that anchors the entire narrative like for you seeing these two performers bringing these complex people in this complex story to life in the way that they did?
Nadine Crocker: I mean, it was mesmerizing to watch. It was such an interesting process. And honestly, I’ve always said this, and my dear friend Jay Seals has always reminded me, that the right actor comes at the right time; you have to keep your faith that the movie gods are going to bring you your people.
And so, Garrett was the first person we attached to, he became one of my closest friends, and he’s so collaborative. He takes his craft so seriously, and he really is mesmerizing to watch, because he just completely morphs and you watch this new person emerge. And then, you just give these little whispers, and you just watch how it manifests. in such a real way within him, because he’s such an interesting and inspiring collaborator.
And Willa, I mean, it was the week before. And Cassian [Elwes, producer] had seen a film with her, and I wasn’t familiar with her work yet. And he told me of her. And so I went and watched everything I possibly could that she had done. And from the first time we sat down, I was just like, “Oh, wow, I love this person, she gets her, she gets it.” She’s collaborative. She’s excited. She’s literally on a set and down to fly the day after they wrap and have two days to get into character before she starts with us.
I mean, literally, it was so impressive that she could just fly and throw herself into Maben. And then she gives that performance that you’re just like, “Well, how did you even do that?” And in such short time, you know, it’s like with Continue and stuff like that, I had been dreaming that film up for years! You know, it’s like this person has a few days, and delivered one of the most beautiful performances, and just her relationship with that little girl. I mean that, and that’s truthfully, that is just a testament to Willa as a creator, also because Willa spent like every waking moment with Pyper Braun, our talented young actress on this movie.
Outside of filming, they were always together. And so they develop this beautiful bond. And it shows, it just shows in every single moment that they’re together on that screen. They’re just so beautiful to watch. So it was definitely exciting and inspiring. And those moments of watching those characters come to life are what keep you moving, and keep you on your mission when you only have 16 days to shoot this film.
You’ve got Mel Gibson in the cast as well, and beyond the gravitas he brings to the role, he’s not too shabby at the whole directing thing, either. So was that somebody you looked to for advice and wisdom in that regard, beyond your collaboration on his character and contributions as an actor?
Nadine Crocker: I definitely always picked his brain. Our first meeting was several hours. And he was just incredible to talk to, and to collaborate with. And he just asked amazing questions, which just makes you discover new things, too, as you’re in flow, and you’re going back and forth.
But then right before production, we went out to dinner, me and all of the creative execs. And we were there for like, three-plus hours. And for me, that was one of the coolest moments of it all coming together, because I just got to ask him a million questions all about other films, I was like, “Okay, so Apocalypto, and Braveheart, let’s talk about it.” It was so exciting, because obviously I’ve grown up watching his films, and he’s just an incredible artist, and he’s done such immense dramatic work, but then you look at him as a director, and you’re just like, “Holy… how many Oscars do you have?”
So it was beautiful to get to pick his brain in a lot of those moments. But once he was on set, he’s just so game and involved, and present as an actor. But he also, when we’re in the moment where the shit hits the fan, and you have a few minutes before lunch, and you need to get it, he’d always look and give a nod, like, “You’re okay, you’re gonna be okay.”
He’s just been there so many times before, he’s experienced that, so he was like the coolest person on set, never stressed or any of those things, he just got it so much. And that was so life-giving, you know, because it definitely could have been a different way when you have 16 days, and you have to get all of this beautiful stuff that we were able to get.
Having not read the book, holding off on revealing the connection between Russell and Maben until deep into the story adds much more weight and resonance to the movie, and recontextualizes virtually everything that came before. It’s not blatantly signposted or foreshadowed, either, so were you always cognizant of keeping that revelation slow-burning in the background for those unaware so as not to play that hand too early?
Nadine Crocker: Yeah, I didn’t want foreshadowing, I didn’t want you to know at all. I wanted it to shock you, and I wanted it… Again, one of the important things to me is showing that we’re all connected, when sometimes we don’t even know how connected we deeply are.
And so, yeah, I’ve tried to keep that a secret for as long as humanly possible, even down to clips they choose, I’m like, “No!” If there’s any kind of feeling of where we’re going to, we have to keep the cat in the bag of how everyone is connected. It was really important to me that we only get a few moments to surprise an audience, and something that’s important to me is surprising the audience constantly through the film. I think we can all recall those films that have cool reveals, or little secrets that we weren’t expecting along the way, those are what we hang on to and what we remember.
It was really important to me to try and keep it a secret, and all kinds of things – even the ending, and when things go down in the house, and with Maben – and I’m trying not to say anything to try to be cryptic, but there’s just a lot of surprises that I want people to go, “Oh!” so I definitely try and keep the cat in the bag.
It’s four unconventional family dramas in one in a way; you’ve got Maben and Annalee, Russell and Mitchell, Larry and his family , and then ultimately Mabel and Russell, all dovetailing, intertwined, and criss-crossing with the other spun out from this one singular event, but was that a difficult balance to strike both on set and in the edit in terms of tone and focus, to ensure that each of those strands was given enough time to breathe on its own?
Nadine Crocker: Yeah, that was actually the hardest balance for me, because as a creator I become deeply connected with every character in every storyline, no one is not important to me. And none of their struggles, or their storylines are unimportant.
So for me, it’s always like, how do I honor these characters in these performances in these storyline, and make sure that we have everything that needs to be there, while also having to be cognizant of runtime and overall flow of a film. So yeah, it’s always a really intricate balance, especially for me, because every character is so important to me.
One of the characters who essentially people could have just not liked from the get-go was Larry, and I love Larry! I’m sure that someone… I mean, who knows, other filmmakers might have done it differently, but I wanted you to feel for him, I want you to connect with every character, even the flawed human beings, because on a level we all are flawed, and I wanted his struggles to really be palpable, and I wanted you to feel them so that you can almost kind of understand why he is the way he is.
So just with all of the storylines, yeah, it was really hard to find the balance, especially when all of your actors are so ridiculously talented. I mean, I honestly, I do feel really grateful, because they just all really brought a life to these characters and made them their own, and you want to honor that and their work as a filmmaker, so it’s definitely a balance.
With two features under your belt now, are you looking to segue further out of the sort of “hired hand” acting arena in favor of gravitating towards telling your own stories as a filmmaker? Or is it more dependent on what material you’re either working on or comes your way at whatever point in time it comes to you?
Nadine Crocker: I’m kind of always following intuition and seeing where I’m being led, I tend to want to direct a lot of my own writing. It really excites me, and my projects all have a very personal message. For me, and almost all of my films have an aspect of charity, and/or work that I want to do. I try and lend my voice to stories that I believe can change lives, or really say something.
But I have, one of my next scripts that I’m just about to do, it was a story that wasn’t my own. And it’s based on a best-selling book. And it was just another incredible story, and also with a producer I love and revere, Robbie Brenner. So for me, it’s like, “Oh, I want to focus on my writing. Oh, just kidding. I found an incredible story. I’m gonna also focus on that,” so I’m just always being pulled in different directions, and a lot of people’s questions are like, “Are you going to keep acting?” because directing, writing and directing, has really become my full focus.
And then, you know, a story can come to me, and I’ll be like, “I have to tell the story.” And I have to act on it, too. And I didn’t think that that instinct would come up again, because I don’t really, it’s not that I don’t feel pulled. It’s kind of like, I’ll know when it comes to me. If it’s something that I feel really drawn to, I always feel that someone in the universe is leading me to little projects that I’m meant to find. So, I guess I’ll say that I have an idea of what I want to do, but then the universe constantly surprises me. And I’m like, “Oh, well, I guess I will still act in this, or I guess I will do writing that isn’t my own.”
I’m very open to the process and what finds its way to me. Above all else, I feel so grateful that I get to live my dreams and I get to do this. I’ve wanted to do this since I was a little girl. So I just feel incredibly lucky. And whatever stories find their way to me, I feel like I’ll know which ones are meant for me.
Continue was an intensely personal story that’s not just won awards and rave reviews, but it’s opened the doors to a broader conversation on subjects that people still find difficult to discuss openly in 2023. The impact it’s had on people on a personal level must be hugely fulfilling for you as not just its writer, director, producer, and star, but as somebody who took a huge part of themself and put it up there on the screen to share with the world, which can’t have been an easy thing to do?
Nadine Crocker: Yeah, it was definitely scary. And especially at the time, there wasn’t a lot of stories of mental health yet. And so a lot of people told me that they didn’t think audiences were ready to talk about mental health. And I just totally disagreed. Because I had known myself personally, there’s nothing more isolating.
And I would just love to know that there were other people struggling with that. So yeah, it became a personal mission of mine. And, you know, as a suicide survivor, I just feel incredibly lucky that I’m here and that I didn’t succeed that night, and that I’m a mother now and a wife, and a director, and all of these things. I would have never been if it wasn’t for that night, and for me being lucky enough to be here today. So, for me, it’s just like, “What can I do with my voice?” And how can I help other people to discover what I was able to discover after the darkest time of my life?
I mean, all of my films will always have an aspect of mental health. And maybe some people will like that, and some won’t. But when it’s just a truly important topic for me, because I think the more that we talk about it, the more we de-stigmatize, the more we normalize admitting that sometimes we’re just not okay, sometimes we struggle, sometimes we have down days, that’s what makes us human.
And I think that the more we can give each other kindness and support each other on those days, the better off we’ll all be. So I will always elevate stories of mental health and suicide prevention, because literally, I’m only in this chair because of how it all worked out for me, and I just feel so lucky. So I always want to try and communicate that to others.
If you could make any project of your choosing without restrictions – as in, it can be whatever you want however you want to make it for however much you want it to cost – what would it be and why it would it be that?
Nadine Crocker: Oh, it’s really tough because I have two big budget films that I am obsessed with, both of them. But to be honest, I think that my first instinct is my film Joking that I have. It’s the first female Joker, it’s not Harley Quinn. It’s a woman basically so obsessed with the Joker, or with Batman, that she becomes the Joker to try and bring him into present day New York. And I call it my feminist Fight Club.
And it’s very edgy, and it’s very cool. It has so many messages hidden inside, and it’s basically showing every big villain in DC, but through a female lens. And so I think that that if I was given full reins to make the film I actually see in my head – this edgy, cool, dark project – and actually have DC have the bravery to give a voice to that story, I think that would be extremely exhilarating as a filmmaker. And I also think it’s a story we need.
Quite frankly, the whole idea came to me because I’m like, “The Joker is the Hamlet of our time, and why does a woman never get a chance, goddammit?!?” And when they do make a version of it, it’s highly sexualized. And like, she’s not as cool as like the Joker. You know, when you watch Joaquin Phoenix, you’re just like, “Yeah, I want to do that.” And so I started to really brainstorm; Who do I think can transform like that? And what can we say through that transformation? And what can we talk about?
It talks about sexual assault, and it talks about the villain and the hero’s story being so similar. It’s just the actions in which they take, and what makes Batman different than my female Joker, because they’re both vigilantes, and it’s like I’m questioning all of these little things. So I would love to mess with that one, and kind of blow people’s minds and take some big risks. I mean, for me as a filmmaker, I kind of thrive and get excited by the risk and by taking big swings.
I mean, Continue was a big swing, and when you see that film when it comes out, I took some risks, and the end has some big surprises. I love that as a filmmaker, so I know there’s some some stories I’m really excited to hopefully tell one day to get the opportunity, so we’ll see.
Desperation Road releases in select theaters and on-demand tomorrow, Oct. 6.
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